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	<title>Comments on: Gold, Coal &amp; Debtland in Australia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/</link>
	<description>An independent perspective on the Australian and global investment markets</description>
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		<title>By: Diggin it!</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15326</link>
		<dc:creator>Diggin it!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15326</guid>
		<description>Kevin, good question! Housing affordability in Australia has been reduced by many factors, two are the availability of finance which has artificially inflated values and State with local governments capitalising on this very scinario. Try and get your hands on the 4th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey 2008.In the fouth paragraph of the introduction it states,
Quote; Australia is purhaps the least densely populated major country in the world, but state governments there have contrived to drive land prices in major urban areas to very high levels, with the result that in that country housing in major state capitals has become severely unaffordable, with median multiples of 8 in Sydney and 7 in Melbourne.

The multiples they refer to are ratio verses annual average wage. I live in a country town with a multiple of 7!!!. The model for sustainability is a multiple of 3, so based on these [proven] models the whole country would have to look at a devaluation of property values in the tune of 50% or do we increase wages by 100% to protect current values, either way it is not sustainable.I would suggest that we in Australia have a very rough ride coming soon, i also feel that we have until 2010 to readjust our living standards [shed liabilities]Those that minimise there exposure now are likely to prosper in the future. Good Luck!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, good question! Housing affordability in Australia has been reduced by many factors, two are the availability of finance which has artificially inflated values and State with local governments capitalising on this very scinario. Try and get your hands on the 4th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey 2008.In the fouth paragraph of the introduction it states,<br />
Quote; Australia is purhaps the least densely populated major country in the world, but state governments there have contrived to drive land prices in major urban areas to very high levels, with the result that in that country housing in major state capitals has become severely unaffordable, with median multiples of 8 in Sydney and 7 in Melbourne.</p>
<p>The multiples they refer to are ratio verses annual average wage. I live in a country town with a multiple of 7!!!. The model for sustainability is a multiple of 3, so based on these [proven] models the whole country would have to look at a devaluation of property values in the tune of 50% or do we increase wages by 100% to protect current values, either way it is not sustainable.I would suggest that we in Australia have a very rough ride coming soon, i also feel that we have until 2010 to readjust our living standards [shed liabilities]Those that minimise there exposure now are likely to prosper in the future. Good Luck!!</p>
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		<title>By: Diggin it!</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15323</link>
		<dc:creator>Diggin it!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15323</guid>
		<description>The titans that control the vantage point of middle Earth will have little interest in helping us, they would rather irradicate us as we have with cultures of the past when we found little use for them or when we simply feared them. The nature of new empires is to see how big they can grow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The titans that control the vantage point of middle Earth will have little interest in helping us, they would rather irradicate us as we have with cultures of the past when we found little use for them or when we simply feared them. The nature of new empires is to see how big they can grow!</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15322</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15322</guid>
		<description>Dan

I think you touch on a really interesting point towards the end of your article that I suspect had a big impact in the marginal seats at the last election but which has received little attention:

&quot;If you can&#039;t increase your income through higher wages,......&quot;

My sense is that the mortgage belt does not see itself as having pricing power in the labour marketplace and being able to command higher returns in the face of rising costs.  This anxiety doubtless translated into support for Rudd&#039;s assertions about feeling empathy with rising living costs in terms of groceries, energy and housing costs.

This is quite an extraordinary turn around for a country that had habitual wages cost breakouts through the union movement and arbitration courts delivering favourable decisions for decades.

So in a sense, the macroeconomic success of the Coalition in breaking down the power of the old industrial relations club didn&#039;t translate into electoral success because the punters quite logically seek some sort of re-assurance that they are going to be protected from going financially backwards.

Which unfortunately suggests populism will dominate future election campaigns, barring some crisis, and calls for politicians of whatever hue to take &#039;courageous&#039; ( read unpopular ) decisions will fall on deaf ears.

Which perhaps also raises the question of what the RBA can really do ?  Anyone reading your pages knows that prices for soft and hard commodities are rocketing upwards, the cost base of producing these commodities is going up, and sooner or later it will translate to rising energy prices, grocery prices and homewares prices for joe shmuck consumer.

But is that cost pressure really going to translate into a wages breakout - even with our tight labour market ( which demographically may well remain tight in the future even through the economic cycle ) ?  The punters in the mortage belt apparently don&#039;t see much prospect of serious income rises outside of further government redistribution through the tax and welfare system.

There has to be a thesis or two for somebody in all this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan</p>
<p>I think you touch on a really interesting point towards the end of your article that I suspect had a big impact in the marginal seats at the last election but which has received little attention:</p>
<p>"If you can't increase your income through higher wages,......"</p>
<p>My sense is that the mortgage belt does not see itself as having pricing power in the labour marketplace and being able to command higher returns in the face of rising costs.  This anxiety doubtless translated into support for Rudd's assertions about feeling empathy with rising living costs in terms of groceries, energy and housing costs.</p>
<p>This is quite an extraordinary turn around for a country that had habitual wages cost breakouts through the union movement and arbitration courts delivering favourable decisions for decades.</p>
<p>So in a sense, the macroeconomic success of the Coalition in breaking down the power of the old industrial relations club didn't translate into electoral success because the punters quite logically seek some sort of re-assurance that they are going to be protected from going financially backwards.</p>
<p>Which unfortunately suggests populism will dominate future election campaigns, barring some crisis, and calls for politicians of whatever hue to take 'courageous' ( read unpopular ) decisions will fall on deaf ears.</p>
<p>Which perhaps also raises the question of what the RBA can really do ?  Anyone reading your pages knows that prices for soft and hard commodities are rocketing upwards, the cost base of producing these commodities is going up, and sooner or later it will translate to rising energy prices, grocery prices and homewares prices for joe shmuck consumer.</p>
<p>But is that cost pressure really going to translate into a wages breakout - even with our tight labour market ( which demographically may well remain tight in the future even through the economic cycle ) ?  The punters in the mortage belt apparently don't see much prospect of serious income rises outside of further government redistribution through the tax and welfare system.</p>
<p>There has to be a thesis or two for somebody in all this.</p>
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		<title>By: christina</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15222</link>
		<dc:creator>christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15222</guid>
		<description>Maybe later the Indians and the Chinese can sponsor us as foster kids like we sponsor them. Oh, I forgot, most people I know in Australia were too greedy and lazy and selfish to sponsor a child overseas. Lets hope that people in thise other countries treat us better than most people treated them then hey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe later the Indians and the Chinese can sponsor us as foster kids like we sponsor them. Oh, I forgot, most people I know in Australia were too greedy and lazy and selfish to sponsor a child overseas. Lets hope that people in thise other countries treat us better than most people treated them then hey?</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15214</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15214</guid>
		<description>One thing no one seems to have cottoned on to is that we don&#039;t actually have a housing shortage.  If you look at the ABS stats housing has been growing 2-3 times the rate of the population.  I.e if population growth is 12% housing has been growing 24%.

So why are houses so expensive.  Simple there less people per house.  20 years ago it was 2.4 people per house (dwelling to be precise).  Now it is 1.6

What would it take to drop house prices by 20%-30%  Credit to dry up and more and more people to share house or live with there parents because rent and house prices are too expensive.  Every .15 increase in that 1.6 people per house will equate to a 10% drop in house values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing no one seems to have cottoned on to is that we don't actually have a housing shortage.  If you look at the ABS stats housing has been growing 2-3 times the rate of the population.  I.e if population growth is 12% housing has been growing 24%.</p>
<p>So why are houses so expensive.  Simple there less people per house.  20 years ago it was 2.4 people per house (dwelling to be precise).  Now it is 1.6</p>
<p>What would it take to drop house prices by 20%-30%  Credit to dry up and more and more people to share house or live with there parents because rent and house prices are too expensive.  Every .15 increase in that 1.6 people per house will equate to a 10% drop in house values.</p>
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		<title>By: kage</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-15195</link>
		<dc:creator>kage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-15195</guid>
		<description>Buckler is wrong.  He needs to refer to the definition of what a lease rate is and how it is calculated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buckler is wrong.  He needs to refer to the definition of what a lease rate is and how it is calculated.</p>
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		<title>By: William Boeder</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-14964</link>
		<dc:creator>William Boeder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-14964</guid>
		<description>Congratulations are due to this rare but truth-telling Dan Denning.
Perhaps even an Order of Australia gong.
Oh how we plebians have been misled by the Barons of Banking and Business along with those noisy nothing packs of financial analysing experts whom peacock to the TV cameras, have been feeding us crocks of ----, for far too long.

I refer to those television-land geeks who speak of consumer indexes, confidences, sentiments, likelihoods, of whether gold is up or down, or oil is up or down, along with their constant vaccuous ramblings and wafflings in telling us of the how and why of the arcane nonsensicals ever rampant in the US of A.
These pumped-up Blarney Spielers should all now be on the Centrelink payroll for all the irrelevent crapulatus and crapulatum that they regularly report to the people of Australia.

Thank you.

William Boeder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations are due to this rare but truth-telling Dan Denning.<br />
Perhaps even an Order of Australia gong.<br />
Oh how we plebians have been misled by the Barons of Banking and Business along with those noisy nothing packs of financial analysing experts whom peacock to the TV cameras, have been feeding us crocks of ----, for far too long.</p>
<p>I refer to those television-land geeks who speak of consumer indexes, confidences, sentiments, likelihoods, of whether gold is up or down, or oil is up or down, along with their constant vaccuous ramblings and wafflings in telling us of the how and why of the arcane nonsensicals ever rampant in the US of A.<br />
These pumped-up Blarney Spielers should all now be on the Centrelink payroll for all the irrelevent crapulatus and crapulatum that they regularly report to the people of Australia.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>William Boeder.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr_Clean</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/comment-page-1/#comment-14894</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr_Clean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 23:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/gold-coal/2008/04/02/#comment-14894</guid>
		<description>Dan,

Excellent article. In last 7 - 8 years people seem to have forgotten that real debt needs to be paid back with real money, cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Excellent article. In last 7 - 8 years people seem to have forgotten that real debt needs to be paid back with real money, cheers</p>
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