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SSDD

It’s the same story, different day (SSDD). That is, nothing much has been revealed overnight to cause us to change our view that you’re investing in the midst of a long-term depression. Most of the positive GDP data coming out globally is backward looking. It doesn’t tell you much about the future.

It is worth noting that a story in yesterday’s Financial Review showed that prices for coking coal have followed iron ore and coal prices down. Record high prices for all of those key exports drove a huge increase in the terms of trade and are behind bullish projections for stock prices, government revenues, and GDP expectations.

But if Chinese demand for these steel-making ingredients falls, all those projections are pretty iffy. It all depends on if Chinese property prices are in a bubble. They are, according to Jiang Hui, the investment director at Star Rock Investment (not Rock Star investment).

According to Bloomberg, Jiang told a conference in Shanghai that, “China’s property market has a very big bubble, which may last for a while…Only higher interest rates and the introduction of a property tax can bring down real-estate prices.”

There are many other things that can prick a bubble. But since we’ve been hitting it pretty hard this week, we’re going to leave those subjects alone. Instead, we’ve published a summary of some of the most interesting lists we got in response to our question a week ago of what to stock up on for the end of the world as you know it. You’ll find the notes below.

But first, and quickly, a mate asked us why we were being so overtly political and pro Liberal in an investment e-letter. We should clarify that we’re against all politicians. Someone wrote to us that, “Comparing elected political representatives to criminals is offensive.” Yes, it is, to the criminals.

You have to keep your eye on politics these days since the government has rushed in to muck up the market even more than it was mucked up by the banksters. But there’s no doubt, that stupidity and economic illiteracy are bi-partisan. If the Greens are basically against industrial society, then what does that make the independent Member for Kennedy, Bob Katter?

Katter has submitted a list of 20 demands/suggestions/flights of fancy/acts of lunacy to Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott. His support can be obtained (not purchased, as in Andrew Wilkie’s case) in exchange for agreeing to some of his demands/suggestions/flights of fancy/acts of lunacy.

This is why Libertarians are generally not conservatives. Conservatives, some of them anyway, don’t have any problem using State power to achieve their favoured ends. They’re just after different favours and different ends.

In Katter’s case, he’s especially ticked off that Coles and Woolworth’s have managed to offer Australians thousands of items they’d not be able to get at the Corner Milk shop at a reasonable price. They must be stopped!

He does have some provocative and entertaining ideas. We’ll give him that. But he reminds us of the Rich Texan character on the Simpson’s, also known as Senator Shady Bird Johnson. Do you see the resemblance?

More seriously, it’s interesting to see how the interest of regional Australia – very real and legitimate ones which Katter represents – differ from the capital cities. Maybe a one-size-fits-all Federal government isn’t going to work as Australia gets bigger. It’s not exactly the Red State/Blue State divide you see in the States. Not yet anyway.

Now, what’s on your list of things to stock up on because they disappear from shelves when people lose confidence in paper money? Some replies below. We’ve published quite a few of them. So take your time over the weekend to review!

Of utmost importance, toilet paper!!!

Also, long term outlook, off the rack magnifier reading glasses of various strengths, thread, needles, safety pins, buttons, antibacterial ointments, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, toothpaste & brushes, vitamins & supplements, OTC pain killers as it all must fit in a small home, chose small items

Thanks for the daily reckoning! Really enjoy reading something amusing while learning

Anne

For us old fashioned book readin’ stay at homes, old fashioned light bulbs, preferably bayonet mounts but screw ins if that’s all and screw in fittings to replace the bayonet fittings. Serious…my local milk bar is selling them for $5 each (bloody screw ins) lots of cigarettes and vodka and proper beer. Crossbows and accessories? Quality dog food (for dog, if huntin’ gets bit tough) bicycles and accessories…are getting very pricey. Old fashioned cameras, film, darkroom equipment-anything that doesn’t need computers. Musical instruments. Good quality art materials and paper. And tools to fortify the joint. Now I’m getting carried away and romantic, this had better stop right here.

Enjoy ya trip like I enjoy ya newsletters.

Jill.

I have a wife and four daughters – no matter how bad things are chocolate always seems to lift the mood!! At the top of my list!! Mind you after reading your columns I don’t know whether to reach for the vodka or the pain killers – or both!! I have been following you for only 6 weeks now, is it just the current climate or is the glass always half empty??

Bruce W.

[Ed. note: not always, just the last ten years or so]

Among my list are sprout seeds, quick growing & nutritional (few days), matches/lighters,

rice/pasta, tinned tomatoes/sauces.

Anonymous.

My plan.

  1. Get out of debt.
  2. Get liquid. Have enough ready cash for the next two years.
  3. Invest in Australia’s underground proven assets. (gas, coal, copper, iron ore etc).
  4. Invest only in Australia where I live. Overseas exchange rates and bankruptcy of Nations do not alter the price of essential food in Australia.
  5. Invest in Intellectual Property focusing on the re-design of thermal power stations.

Kind regards,

J.

Sounds like you have the survivalist bug. Some more reserved commentators call it the lifeboat scenario. After watching Tony Robbins inform people that they had best watch out for a collapse late this year and no later than early next year I have been buying extras of everything, kitting out the 4wd and pencilling in great camp sites to go to when the bank holiday starts. Do you want to be in a city when people cannot access money – ergo food and fuel? Not this little black duck.

If you consider that Australia has no more than three weeks worth of fuel reserves and four weeks’ worth of food reserves I think a recovery in the near to medium term is psychopathic optimism.

Good luck.

M.

You have a good list. I would add: Heirloom seeds, matches and/or fire starters, first aid products, good boots, Swiss Army knife.

Best regards,

Charley

Lots of toilet paper, the nice soft one. Think we may be using it or selling it.

Graham

I’d add a tin opener. It might be embarrassing to die on top of a pile of tins, maybe holding an empty weapon.

V.

My wife’s Polish grandmother would always buy up huge stocks of salt when she thought a depression was coming. She lived through two world wars and died at a ripe old age of 93 about 10 years ago.

Love your column,

T. Smith

-First up, I love your dailies and weeklies. Very insightful and must say I do agree with almost all posted. That said, I do find it incredibly curious that a group of smart guys like yourself (nor almost any other economists I might add), still do not mention the underlying cause of why the word is going through this GFC right now.

It’s called Demographics, guys.

Wow, ever heard or studied that? The world economy pumps out around 58T per annum. Of that the US around 14-15T, the EU around 16T, China and Japan a piddly 5T. Germany rates bout 3.3T, then all of us just follow…Now assume the rest of the world is just like the US (I’m not sure, but a good bet I recon), the consumer is approximately 70% of the economy… Any problems so far?

So. If you only knew when (demographically) the big spenders were on the sidelines or spending, s**t, we would all be rich! But wait, we do! Through National and international statistics from (IMF, CIA, World Bank), we are now armed with these facts!

The big fact is that people in their late 40′s to 50′s scale down, with everything, from cars to Mc Mansions. The kids have left (or are leaving) home, me and you just wanna get all cuddly… And guess what? Whatever Obama or anyone says (or tries to pay for), I don’t f**cking need a new SUV from Ford or whomever! All I want my little retirement condo and my 401K (or Super in AUS)…

And that is the fact. The US and EU Consumers are now not spending. NO amount of FED spending will entice the Consumer to spend on that RV or the Mc Mansion they don’t need.

Please feel to comment, like the song, I’m just a guy.

I agree, no Bonds. Well, make money while you can though.

Eric

Items necessary on the basis of the experience of my grandmother, who lived through three bankruptcies during her life (1920, 1930, 1948) in Europe:

  • Salt (you can trade for salt any items of your need with farmers, then farmers always need salt – salt is easy to store for several decades!) – I think, that salt is the most important of all! Salt is as important as gold!
  • Gold, gold, gold – you can buy anything for gold during hard times. My grandmother told me, that during the 2nd world war a family of 4-5 persons could buy food for one day for 1g gold!
  • Matches
  • Saccharine
  • Fats of any kind (best is palm fat)
  • Additives for soap cooking (you can do it by using used fat!)
  • Warm clothing (also good for trading)
  • Any kind of appliance needed when you kill an animal for meet (pork, goat, chicken, etc.) – and abilities to process them
  • Wheat
  • Sugar (a lot of it, easy to store – use some drying material when packing – silica gel)
  • Honey
  • If possible let a water well be made in your yard
  • Washing powder + cosmetics as soap, toothpaste, etc.
  • Dried meet, fruit, preserves as marmalade, jams, – home made preserves to be preferred!
  • Petroleum lamps
  • Heating furnace fuelled by wood (also good for cooking)
  • If you have place: living stock like chicken, swine, etc.
  • Egg powder
  • Chocolate
  • Any kinds of nuts (vacuum-packed) – has a great nutrition value
  • Red vine
  • Vinegar and other spices like pepper, curry etc. (during bad times there are no spices)
  • Lemon juice preserve (vitamins!) self made
  • All kinds of penicillin pills
  • Plant a lot of fruit trees in your garden! Make sure, that your garden can not be seen from the road!

Hope that I could be of any help.

Although you did not ask for it, but I would like to add something else from my grandmother, here a list, what you should avoid in any case:

         §   Money with any bank on a banking account!
         §   Any kind of insurances
         §   Any dematerialized papers, like shares, etc.

From the history of my grandmother (she is now dead): She and my grandfather have saved money during their whole life, they wanted to have a nice banking account for their retirement. They wanted to travel to several places in their old days.

But the 2nd world war came. And the banks have eventually closed, but the paper money has lost all of its purchasing power anyway. She told me, if they had bought gold for their money, they could have been well off even during the hard times and thereafter. When I was a little girl my grandmother used to tell us these stories. I am happy, that I have listened.

And do you know what? My father used to purchase gold bars during the 1960s. Unfortunately he died being 49, so he did not need it.

With best wishes,

Valéria

Hello :-) I am writing in response to your article where you ask your readers what else should you stock up on.

I am stocking up on: sterno canned heat or ecofuel canned heat as that is the only heat source I can find that is safe to burn indoors without dying of carbon monoxide poisoning. And some of those fold up sterno stoves. You can buy them all on eBay and they ship worldwide, a lot of the sellers

Plus there is a company called sun jel that make indoor fireplaces that run of cans of fuel that is safe to burn indoors.

Plus I found on eBay these cool headlamps- they are headbands with a torch light stuck to the front of them- like miners use in mines, and I also got off eBay some cap lights whish are lights that you clip not the rim of your cap. I got some for the whole family. How else are you going to see at night when you’re cooking tins of spam ham on your sterno stove?

Plus spam ham of course, you can cut it into slices and fry it on your sterno stove.

Packets of seeds that reproduce year after year

Dried mashed potato that you just have to add water to.

Maybe even a camping fridge that runs on batteries

Get the whole house converted to solar so you won’t be subject to blackout or brownouts, and get a water tank for your backyard

Buy a dingo bush camping kettle so you don’t need a stove to boil water but be careful not to burn the house down as they don’t look too safe

Buy a 30 second tent in case you and your family need to flee

And some thick mink blankets to put over your family when the power goes off in winter, while you light the sun jel indoor fireplace.

Plus tinned food including tins of fruit cake and chocolate self saucing pudding so nobody rips each other’s heads off from depression during all of this fiasco. Chocolate works well in any situation to cheer people up

Plus powdered milk so you can have a tea or coffee at any time if you don’t have a fridge

Plus aero guard and rat and mouse poison as pests increase when nobody collects the rubbish in the streets for months, which I saw firsthand on a visit to Bali once

And plastic plates, cups and spoons and cutlery in case there is not much water to wash dishes. Plus lots of garbage bags.

Plus a radio that runs on batteries to hear the news on, and lots of batteries

AND- you should store it in your house- buy a shed for the backyard or even 2 sheds because who’s to say that the owner of your storage facility wont steal your stuff when the going gets tough (all he has to do is cut the padlock on your storage room or open the door himself with a key) (remember- desperate people do desperate things) and b) who’s to say that the owner of the storage facility is going to let you in or even be open for business when everything collapses? What if he sleeps in? What if he broke and gives up? And how are you going to get to the storage facility if the roads are blocked with rioting people? And how will you pack the stuff into your car without being mobbed by other people at the storage facility who might be starving?

As they used to say in the 1930′s great depression: “If you don’t hold it you don’t own it” That doesn’t just apply to gold and silver and cash, it applies to survival supplies as well. Good luck!!

Thanks for your great newsletter; I love it a lot :-)

Kind Regards, from Christina :-)

Toilet Paper, seed, generator, drinking water, bleach, rolling papers, spices. Of course whiskey and gunpowder must play a prominent role if you have anything the hoards now living off the government may well try to take from you when the merde hits the fan. ALL THIS IS BEING HASTENED BY TRAITORS IN DC WHO CONTINUE TO OVERLOAD OUR SYSTEM WITH DEBT AND MONETIZATION. If we fail to vote enough of the bastards out in November to at least create a little gridlock, we are almost surely doomed, if we are not already doomed by the actions of these Marxists.

If your predictions of doom and gloom come to pass then the things that will be in greatest demand will be comfort and succour to the devastated.

Become an expert in human relations such as helping yourself and others cope with their losses and emotional turmoil would be a good start on a personal and family survival basis.

But if it is not as bad as a total breakdown of the system and just a garden variety depression then the three essential assets of food, clothing and entertainment come into play.

A small farm might be in order but you will need all those bullets you intend to get to keep the crows (of all sizes) off the vegies as they ripen.

Maybe a soup kitchen or two wouldn’t go astray. You could supply it from the vegies you grow and what’s left of the government will be subsidising the place so you will at least get paid.

Maybe the US will take in the China welcome mat and you can open the clothing factories again if you can find anyone who still has the knowledge on how to make sewing machines and clothes.

Luckily Hollywood is still functioning so all you need there is a re-incarnation of likes of Bing Crosby and co along with Madison Ave who got the US out of the last depression. It was not the “Great Roosevelt” I can tell you that for free.

As far as safe assets go I should buy a chain of medical practitioners and chemists (drug stores to you) and I would own the premises too.

Pharmaceuticals will do well for a while pushing drugs and anti-depressants but as I am totally opposed to that industry in principle I would not be recommending it.

I can’t see hording gold being a lot of good as apart from filling teeth it doesn’t do a lot to maintain life. Unless you can use it to buy the soup kitchens, if we really hit the fan who will want it? Will it even be valued in paper currency after all? As people get hungry and desperate and dump their gold and jewellery to keep alive the price of it should crash to next to nothing.

I guess it’s all a matter of degree. As the master of doom and gloom you tell me how bad it’s going to get? I already admire (and envy) your skill as a wordsmith. I would love to read your assay on the subject.

Regards,

Merv.

Until next week!

Dan Denning
Dan Denning is the Editor-in-Chief of The Daily Reckoning Australia and the author of 2005’s best-selling The Bull Hunter (John Wiley & Sons). He began his financial publishing career in 1997 as a small-cap analyst. From 2000 to 2005 he was the managing editor of Strategic Investment, where he recommended gold and warned of the US housing bubble. Dan has covered financial markets from Baltimore, Paris, London and, beginning in 2005, Melbourne Australia, where he is the Publisher of Port Phillip Publishing. To follow Dan's financial world view more closely you can subscribe to The Daily Reckoning for free here. If you’re already a Daily Reckoning subscriber, then we recommend you also join him on Google+. It's where he shares investment research, commentary and ideas that he can't always fit into his regular Daily Reckoning emails.
Dan Denning

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135 Comments

  1. Lehman Sisters says:

    Great list on what to store for survival in the comimg depression. But what if you want to make money and come out of it wealthy. You need to trade on the blackmarket.
    We all agree you need gold to buy food and essentials, no black market will accept paper money in a Depression.
    So what is everyone doing, going into gold to buy food and essentials when things get tough. No money in that. Making money is buying food now to exchange for gold later.
    My old man (97 years old and still going) traded cans of baked beans and cartons of eggs for gold rings in the Great Depression. He could turn in todays dollars 24 cans of baked beans or a few dozen eggs (value $30- $120.00) into 1 oz. of gold (value $1200.00). Cigarettes and chocolate were worth far more and can be stored for years. If you want to make money in gold, don’t bother digging for it, sell the diggers shovels and picks.

  2. Tim says:

    You all must have read the novel “One Second After” Scared the hell out of me. Here in the USA add ammo (defensive and hunting)to your list.

  3. matt says:

    It is the same story different day, and it’s the same story in almost every finance article…September is the worst month financially, its going to be a double dip recession etc etc. The, ‘invest your money differently and more cautiously’, strategy is clearly the natural approach, but what about actually saving money where possible, and becoming more knowledgeable on exactly how to save. Why don’t people start looking at their options?! Why not look into financial cash back services or actual fee for service advisors…I think its time to start controlling your funds, saving money especially in times like these is crucial, yet people don’t know how much they can save, because they are being told that its not a time for saving.

  4. Biker says:

    “I think its time to start controlling your funds, saving money especially in times like these is crucial, yet people don’t know how much they can save, because they are being told that its not a time for saving.”

    We must be living in unparallel universes, Matt. Australians are saving like never before. Term deposits are increasing:

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/term-deposits-making-a-comeback-20100906-14xd6.html

    The catch? Savings are taxed more highly than almost any other a$$et class.
    Looks good on paper, until the taxman bites… .

    The exception? First Home Saver Accounts provide a 21.25% _after-tax_ return. Beats property, gold _and_ shares at the moment. Yeah, I know, some here will tell you they’re consistently beating 21.25% after tax. (In their dreams! :D )

  5. Biker says:

    Correction: It is possible to consistently beat 21.25%, sal-packing, with _Super._ ;)

  6. chris says:

    Is it true that Australia only has 4 weeks supply of food available? If so, that is some scary stuff!!

  7. chris says:

    During depressions, hungry poor people steal off rich people. So make your house look poor or it might be a target for hungry robbers. So make your front yard look dirty and dumpy. Scatter some old used tires around your front yard. Paint your front fence rusty (you can paint it back nice after the depression – you don’t want to look like an affluent target)Chuck some rubblish around the front yard. Any one looking at your house will think that you are poor and they will leave you alone. Survival is more important than image. Who cares what the neighbours think!

  8. chris says:

    And buy some of those 10kg or 15kg bags of rice to give out to your relatives and friends. You can’t let let all your friends and relatives die, and if you give them just one bag of 15kg rice each, it will keep them and their families alive fir ages, and they will thank you forever.

  9. Biker says:

    “Is it true that Australia only has 4 weeks supply of food available? If so, that is some scary stuff!!”

    Yes, this is true, Chris. And were you aware that somewhere in Australia, a woman is giving birth every eight minutes?
    That’s even scarier.
    We have to find that woman…
    …and stop her…!

  10. Bearamundi says:

    It is pointless tracking down women and stopping them from giving birth. There is no escape!!

  11. Biker says:

    O M G. Can’t compete with these intellects… .

    By the way, ‘Chris’, Aussies spell ‘tire’ as ‘tyre’. You’ve figured ‘neighbour’ out. If you’re going to post as one of us, you need to forget more of your US schooling… . :D

  12. Dan says:

    The government taxes anything that moves. So a good savings vehicle is one that doesn’t move, or that the government doesn’t “see” until you change it into cash (if ever). So I agree with Biker that term deposits and the like are not very good because they are based in cash and are completely transparent to the tax system. Maybe if you are specifically waiting to make a big purchase and need to store your cash then sure, but this is not the usual situation. Buying things that last and things you can use is a much better way to “save” – land, tools, seedlings, etc.

    I think it’s hilarious how banks call term deposits “investments”!

  13. Ned S says:

    “government taxes anything that moves” – They especially like taxing stuff that doesn’t move though Dan. As it is so easy to keep track of. Land is an excellent example.

  14. Biker says:

    “…buy some of those 10kg or 15kg bags of rice to give out to your relatives and friends. You can’t let let all your friends and relatives die, and if you give them just one bag of 15kg rice each, it will keep them and their families alive fir ages, and they will thank you forever.”

    Well, for three weeks, anyway… . :D

    God Bless Us All… ;)

  15. Ned S says:

    Possibly the world as we know it isn’t going to totally end this decade? :

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/chinas-may-allow-farms-as-collateral/story-e6frg90o-1225915090727

    Well, not our bit of it anyway. :)

  16. Biker says:

    Holy Guacomole, Neddie! Do you realise what this means?!~ ;)

  17. Biker says:

    _TWO_ 15 kg bags of rice for the rellies. Six weeks of eternal thanks!!~ :D

  18. Biker says:

    (They block my serious stuff… and let this sh*t through. It’s a worry! :D )

  19. Dan Denning says:

    I was asked to clarify this policy. No comments are blocked unless they are spam. If a comment contains profanity it might be moderated. If a post contains more than one hyperlink it is sent to queue for moderation, to make sure it is not bot-generated spam. But if you think someone is exercising editorial discretion over which comments to approve and which to block, that simply doesn’t happen.

  20. Ned S says:

    “Neddie! Do you realise what this means?!” – That 750 million Chinese farmers will now be able to buy seaside holiday homes in Oz Biker? That should keep holiday rental accommodation rates nice and low for us locals when they all scoot back home for the NH growing season.

  21. Biker says:

    OK… Let’s now test Dan’s recent comment… again… . Post in two minutes, folks!~ :D

  22. bearamundi says:

    “You can’t let let all your friends and relatives die”

    Maybe just an in-law if that is OK?

  23. Ned S says:

    I had a wife once I wouldn’t have minded letting go Bear – Although I still reckon her ma ‘n pa are probably worth feeding? ;)

  24. chris says:

    If you think that a 15kg bag of rice will only feed the relatives for 6 weeks, then give them two bags :-) There you go, they now have 3 months to get their acts together.

  25. bearamundi says:

    “I had a wife once I wouldn’t have minded letting go Bear”

    Yes Ned, married men don’t actually live longer, it just feels like it :roll:

    In further support, most divorced men I know aren’t in a real hurry to do that again, too busy enjoying a single lifestyle…

  26. chris says:

    I read a quote recently, it said “Gee this financial crisis is tougher than a divorce, I lost half my fortune and I still have a wife” :-)

  27. Stillgotshoeson says:

    Comment by chris on 9 September 2010:

    I read a quote recently, it said “Gee this financial crisis is tougher than a divorce, I lost half my fortune and I still have a wife”

    I’m divorced, I have to pay my ex $1290 a month out of my pay.. To some it sounds a lot but I must confess that it is not too bad, if we were still married I would have to giver her all of it :D

  28. matt says:

    wow, so from what all are saying, we are in a depression and only have 4 week of food left, dont get married, its too expensive, and there is no point in saving because you dont see the return anyway. So basically, we are living a pointless, prolonged life.
    Im interested to know what the thoughts actually are on savings. And in response to Biker, i was more leaning to saving by cutting down things that were not essential to our financial cause, and using this money to invest or reinvest in say super. Maybe we should go to the old way and withdraw our money and hide it under our beds. Then “Chuck some rubblish around the front yard” to ward off the thieves. Depression, i think more depressing….

  29. Biker says:

    “…in response to Biker, i was more leaning to saving by cutting down things that were not essential to our financial cause, and using this money to invest or reinvest in say super.”

    Sounds rational to me, Matt. We’ve been doing that for over three decades now. It works. My only caution with Super would be to choose a fund which not only has minimal fees, but which allows you to move your money to different asset classes within the fund, online. This has boosted our funds by hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Google Earth indicates there really is a sycophant with rubbish scattered all over the front yard and a pack of rats dragging bags from two backyard sheds, so maybe that’s a better plan… . ;)

  30. Bearamundi says:

    “wow, so from what all are saying, we are in a depression and only have 4 week of food left, dont get married, its too expensive, and there is no point in saving because you dont see the return anyway. So basically, we are living a pointless, prolonged life.”

    Glad to see you are connecting the dots Matt. Remember the second album of Spinal Tap? ‘Sh*t-sandwich’ if I recall. You have to move past tribalism, get real dis-illusioned, probably depressed and then start to accept yourself and your lot in life. Once you accept it, the whole thing starts to change on you and you get a feeling of love for all mankind well, ‘cept Biker of course ;)

  31. Biker says:

    Hope that your depression lifts soon, Bear. Some tips for you, son:
    1.) Choose something more nutritious for lunch; 2.) Dump your sh*t in the woods, like other bears; 3.) Base your lifestyle on rock’n'roll… and only rock’n'roll; 4.) Stereotype continually. Blokes in fluoro vests are:
    a.) crazy b.) poor. I could go on, but you get my drift.

    I’d picked you quite early as a winner in this forum. ;)

  32. Ned S says:

    “You have to move past tribalism, get real dis-illusioned, probably depressed and then start to accept yourself and your lot in life. Once you accept it, the whole thing starts to change on you and you get a feeling of love for all mankind” – I’m not sure the Yanks are feeling overly inclined to run with that plan just yet Bear? :)

  33. Bearamundi says:

    flamed again D)

  34. Bearamundi says:

    :))

  35. Biker says:

    Chrisped… ! ;)

  36. Bearamundi says:

    Hey Biker, if you are in the mood the latest Keiser Report No 75 on youtube is a ripper…as black as it gets but I enjoyed it

  37. Biker says:

    Sorry, Bear, the US situation only interests me as an extreme contrast to that in Australia. Maybe you need a break from it. Can’t be too good for your mental health, mate.

    Your bleak perception of a Depression in Australia is way off. Last time I looked, things seemed pretty good: 5.1% unemployment, good wages, rising oz buck, banks all in good shape, reasonable interest rates, largest homes in the world. We’re not even experiencing a recession, but apparently we have clowns trashing their front yards and stashing rice in backyard sheds… . Words fail me… .

    I’m here in the hope of learning from optimistic Aussies who have simple strategies for preparing for financial independence. I’m prepared to share what we know about that, after a few decades of research, practice and experimentation. Not all that interested in the US scene, which, in our view resulted from corporate greed, corruption and lack of regulation… .

    Australia _is_ different, thank God!~ :D

  38. Bearamundi says:

    Well you are right again I guess and I’m sure most here would agree with you too. I still find US/world shenanigans enlightening (esp the disconnect between media and bloggers) but yeah, it is losing its appeal.
    I don’t think Aussie is headed for a Depression as the dollar is too strong (according to shadowstats et al). I do think that housing prices will correct, but I see that as a good thing. The market should determine price, rather than govt manipulation (which you and others have benefited from enormously but which is unsustainable).
    I doubt that Australia is different. Human beings are the same pretty much the world over: selfish, cunning, full of contradiction, unchild-like esp politicians. But you see that without judgement, witness it, and things often seem to just turn your way anyway. Almost as if life itself is taking care of you.

  39. Bearamundi says:

    Feeling for ya stillgotshoeson!! Over $300 a week…

  40. Biker says:

    “Feeling for ya stillgotshoeson!! Over $300 a week… ”

    And the _house._ Don’t forget the house… ! :(



  41. bearamundi says:

    Trying to think of a simple strategy Biker. The essential ingredient to independence is self-control IMO. I look around and it usually sheets back to this one quality which towers above other qualities for me.

  42. Biker says:

    You know, I think it’s _information._

    All the self-control in the world won’t conjure up a brass razoo if you don’t know what you’re doing… . ;)

  43. Ned S says:

    Information combined with self control – Yep, I reckon you blokes are getting a handle on it. Chuck in some hard work and we could be beginning to see the basis of a plan? Wonder what Lachlan and Dan and Don and Annie and Ross and Shoes reckon?

  44. Stillgotshoeson says:

    Comment by Ned S on 9 September 2010:

    Information combined with self control – Yep, I reckon you blokes are getting a handle on it. Chuck in some hard work and we could be beginning to see the basis of a plan? Wonder what Lachlan and Dan and Don and Annie and Ross and Shoes reckon?

    I would add direction.. Work out what you want from life to work out what your needs will be.. If you think you will be happy being on the dole and smokn’ the green grass of home in a humpie near Byron Bay then good luck to you..
    If you want more than that then seek the information you need to help you achieve those goals..
    Work to achieve your goals, improve your education to get a better job, and finally to quote someone else.. sort of..
    Don’t waste your time buying crap you don’t need just to impress people you don’t like

  45. Ned S says:

    DAMN! – Forgot Greg. No longer with us here but definitely NOT a party to be omitted! I’d ask for Steve’s thoughts too but suspect that if he can buy a $700K house within 30 minutes commute of Sydney Airport for $350K he’ll be happy. And will simply nag if he’s told those days could be gone forever so he can’t?

  46. Biker says:

    Information: $109 billion worth of projects about to launch in WA in 2011.
    That excludes anything the Two Amigos may be inclined to wangle for WA regions… . :D

  47. bearamundi says:

    smokn’, you got me thinking Shoes….Hey, but that’s _illegal_ in God’s own. Ah, dreaming of India again where da ganga is legal to Worship God Shiva. Too much _information_, no self-control, confusion -ya damned if you do and damned if ya don’t, going crazier…system abort, system abort

    On the info front, I try to limit expenses as you have paid tax on that money which makes it more precious. What about Aussie designed and made Silver Batts (Australian Reflective Insulation)? Only discovered them last night on Net. These nifty things totally eliminate heat gain from the roof. They have an R rating of 15. $175 for 32 Batts. Goodbye Mark Taylor, you have enough mullah already, I’m going passive cooling with these Aussie suckers.

  48. Biker says:

    “…you have paid tax on that money…”

    I have? But I get it _all_ back… . Information IS money.

  49. bearamundi says:

    Some of us don’t want to ignore our larger social obligations. You’ve sold out Biker, get back to your roots man, your ROOTS!!

  50. bearamundi says:

    I’ve got the plan. Code name: _POPS_hots.
    First we get Biker to hack the mainframe on his solar system, run a feed to the Chalet and light that baby up like a Christmas Tree. Next, a Bunnings hydroponics rig and growing Purple Haze in there like no tomorrow. I’ll middleman it to Shoes and he can hock the sh*t when John Butler Trio plays the Bay.
    Shoes, you’ll have to go in deep cover. This is where I run into difficulties though. We can’t call you Flip-flops now as it would be kind of degrading. I was thinking you might get away with Birkenstocks but then single women might think you’re a Scientologist.
    Anyways, flicking WA Bud, we’ll be rich BOYZ, RICH!!

  51. Ned S says:

    “a Bunnings hydroponics rig” – Did the maths on that many years ago when the street value of one plant was $2K and my yearly salary was $20K. Twelve plants didn’t sound like that big an annual ask of my agricultural abilities at the time given all farmers have costs but they don’t necessarilly all pay taxes.

    But found myself thinking in terms of Chis’ dilemma about “suicide or prison” – All depended how much a bloke figured he might enjoy the free fun he’d get in prison I reckoned. So opted to keep working for a living myself at that time. But things change. Does anyone know if the Greens have a co-ed policy on prison facilities?

  52. Biker says:

    “Some of us don’t want to ignore our larger social obligations.”

    We provide a lot of families with quality accommodation, Bear. We’re an essential service.

    We paid far too much tax for far too long… .
    Write-offs + salpack + tax-free TTRs mean that’s no longer the case. :D

  53. chris says:

    Hey don’t worry, it’s not all bad news. During economic downturns, families spend more time together, they cook home cooked meals instead of junk food so they get healthier, and they become closer. Idiots who get 100% home loans and bid house prices up so high have to stop it, so now honest normal people who save a deposit will have a chance to buy a house. House prices will drop so your kids and grandkids will be able to afford a house instead of being homeless bums who hang around at your place. Hayy S Dent the great economist advises that you should sell any excess houses that you have now, while the rally is still on, and then buy them back again later when house prices drop.

  54. chris says:

    I meant to say Harry S Dent, sorry for the spelling error

  55. bearamundi says:

    Economic Downturn Chris, whaaaT!! Isn’t life the same as it ever was? House prices are gonna keep rising? Sure, they might plateau for a bit but then they’ll continue to rise, right? People will pay a half a mill for their first home because that’s what they’re worth, right? Aussie is different, Julia “cares”….

    No Sir they won’t, I’m not taking the Cool-aid either Chris. There will obviously be a return to normality in housing, and aussie values, the quarter acre block ideal (probably a diminished parcel now), will again re-assert themselves.

    That’s an economic upturn in my book, it’ll just be those on the other side of the tracks who will get gloomy about it, and label it otherwise. BRING IT ON!!

  56. bearamundi says:

    The greens’ll only provide more soap for prisons Ned, but we ain’t going there.
    I want to cut you in on the action too, Ned. You’ll have to grow a soul-patch and gather what’s left of your hair into a pony tail. Those Bay chicks are going to love your stoned-as dancing to the Trio while Shoes/Birkenstocks off-loads the gear.

  57. Lachlan says:

    Ned the legal money (and lots of it) is made by the hydro nutrients companies. A mate of mine made money retailing the stuff also. On a commercial scale hydro outfit you produce these nutrient formulas for about thirty times plus less the price. License to print$$$. But you cant have it both ways Ned since you’ll fail to gain the valuable social connections available in jails…rats eh.

  58. Lachlan says:

    Just to clarify…Im talking about the little packs/bottles of nutrients which are sold with mini home hydro units…as distint from the nutrients a farm would buy. But its all the same stuff with different packaging/pricing.

  59. annie says:

    Yep agree! Information, self control, direction, hard work and a bit of luck maybe? Having a good sense of self is critical to the whole thing. If you have a good sense of self, you don’t need lots of things, consumer goods, the latest fashion or nik naks. You can live quite simply. And its funny how things turn around. I have been the queen of garage sales and op shops since my teenage years. Soooooo many times I have worn something that people ask where I got it. Quite proudly say “From a garage sale” and years ago you would get that look of “oh how can she admit to that!” Well never really cared what snobs thought. Now however, it is fashionable to recycle and get a bargain. It’s in vogue!!

    I’m probably a dag but a happy one.

  60. Bearamundi says:

    annie, we’ve got just the plan for ya!! Op-shop get-up, you’ll pass as a pothead. You’ll just have to do a bit of dancing with Ned, and try to dig it as much as he does…we need a driver. Can you cook?

    “We paid far too much tax for far too long… .
    Write-offs + salpack + tax-free TTRs mean that’s no longer the case.”

    Biker dude, its just that sentiment, money and the big end of town, that destroyed America. ROOTS MAN!!

  61. Biker says:

    “Biker dude, its just that sentiment, money and the big end of town, that destroyed America. ROOTS MAN!!”

    Yeah, your plan to grow and distribute ganga is completely rational, Bear.
    I guess you’ve never heard of confiscation of a$$ets?
    Good luck with ten penal servitude and thirty more of penury, son!~ :D

  62. Biker says:

    “…it is fashionable to recycle and get a bargain. It’s in vogue!!”

    Always has been, really. Sounds like you’ve got it figured out, Annie. :)

  63. Ned S says:

    Chris, you have a rather rosier view of downturns than me when you say “families spend more time together, they cook home cooked meals instead of junk food so they get healthier, and they become closer” – My impression is that things like unemployment, inability to repay debt, speculating on tradeable assets, family breakups, sales of playing cards, alcoholism, crime, permanent alienation from the workforce and pet food sales all go up. While things like bank account balances, asset prices, real wages, availability of credit, home ownership rates, life expectancies and the numbers of pets tend to go down. Still, it’s an ill wind that blows no-one any good I guess.

  64. Biker says:

    “Still, it’s an ill wind that blows no-one any good I guess.”

    Cheer up, Ned. Economists have reconfirmed just now, on the midday news,
    that ours is one of the very most healthy economies in the world. :D

    I wouldn’t expect a reply from ‘Chris’ until much later tonight.
    I note that most of his posts appear while we’re all in bed, for some reason… . ;)

  65. Ned S says:

    “Some of us don’t want to ignore our larger social obligations” – One for you to add to your list just could be legally minimising your tax liability Bear? If you don’t while others do, you’d need to be a way better bloke than most to continue to adopt that ‘peace and goodwill to all’ view you mention for any more than a few decades is my guess?

    PS: One of the ‘funnier’ yarns I know is of a contractor whose lady was an ATO employee. She clued him up on ALL the possible tax cheats. (As opposed to the legal minimisation stuff I mention.) Anyway, he adopted her suggestions with gusto. Unfortunately, for him, he found that her rather intimate knowledge of his tax affairs somewhat weakened his bargaining position when she left home and asked for a property settlement!

  66. Biker says:

    “…legally minimising your tax liability…”

    It’s under the sub-heading ‘Information’, Ned. As promised, I’ll forward our findings summarising the best combination(s) of retirement options, after 20th October.

    “…when she left home and asked for a property settlement…”

    Hope she left him footwear, mate!~ ;)

  67. Ned S says:

    “Cheer up, Ned” – No special gloom ‘n doom here Biker. It’s just that I know enough about both severe deflationary and inflationary downturns (secondhand anecdotes happily) that when I hear suggestions that either could have their upsides, my response is to say “Not for too damn many that I’ve ever heard of!” :)

  68. Biker says:

    Don’t think we need worry too much about deflation, Ned.

    In fact there’s not too much to worry about at all, other than 40% property crashes, 10% unemployment, 0% interest rates, the ASX hitting 3000, gold reaching $6K per ounce, sugar reaching 2009 levels, the rising cost of baked beans, the sky falling and similar predictions by amateur and professional nostradami… .

    Snigger, guffaw, chuckle, ROFLMAOAKMLs :D

  69. Don says:

    You are not suggesting you bet on form then Biker? :)

  70. Biker says:

    Not a gambler, Don. I can’t afford to be. I play a pretty defensive game.
    Some examples? Looked hard at Nova Scotia: didn’t buy. Looked at platinum: didn’t buy. Sold (out) on a rising ASX at 3800, which went to 5000+, much to Greg’s (and my sons’) mirth.

    Never had delusions that I could retire before 50. Never went for the quick, effortless money. Never made silly predictions online.
    (I think gold _will_ actually reach $1300.00.)

    I’m into the slow, boring, dull, dependable stuff, like property, Super, and cash in offsets. Oh… and dependable information.

    There are old bikers and bold bikers. There are very few old, bold bikers…

  71. Bearamundi says:

    Whoah Biker, back it up a bit.
    Anyone would know I’m having a bit of a laugh with the ganga business proposition…you have picked up on that right? Ned, the soul patch, Birkenstocks etc. It’s a joke.

    In other words, my sentiment, foundational objective here is to entertain in this instance. Right? Sentiment is hard to gain a purchase on. Often people use their humanity as a means to dis-arm their audience.

    What is your sentiment I wonder? When you speak of not paying taxes or that you don’t mind subsidising accomodation where are you coming from exactly?

    You might think that people who pay tax are stupid. You might have a clean hands social policy. “I did everything legally, so I have done nothing wrong” attitude. Economics Rules.

    On the other hand you might not like the way taxes are handled by the govt. So you minimise tax and then give a portion to say a charity. I’m not saying you should.

    What I am saying is that when money and greed get the upper hand in a person, then you have the conditions present that destroyed a country like USA.

    It is kind of like the question I usually have in my mind as I interact: “Do you/I believe what you/I are/am saying?” In the instance of the ganga clearly I don’t. That doesn’t make me morally superior, it is just interesting to be aware of states of mind.

  72. Biker says:

    Too late, Bear. The CCC has hacked this site… and they’re onto you, son!
    Large hirsute individual riding south on a BMX bicycle giving the finger to passing 4WDs.

    “…it is just interesting to be aware of states of mind…”

    You’re right, son. Better you stay in yours, not mine…” ;)

  73. Ned S says:

    “Better you stay in yours, not mine” – Oxford dictionary has now rewritten their definition of ‘schizophrenia’ – A melding of Bear’s and Biker’s minds! ;)

    Stay off the happy smokes blokes – I hear it aggrevates that condition. :)

  74. Biker says:

    CCC: “Ullo, ullo, ullo… Care to explain how a large, stoned, cycling koala happens to have a $30K stereo system and a very large collection of 70s vinyl?! And this tropical indoor garden disguised as The Woods, with a neon sign flashing ‘Get The Good Sh*t Here’?!~”

  75. Biker says:

    Surely you mean ‘aggreviates’ Ned? :D :D :D

  76. Biker says:

    Seriously, to alleviate your sense of heightened vigilance, Bear, my problem is that I foolishly believe _everything_ you say. You must therefore be careful in giving advice online; lest you lead me (and other gullible DReaders) down the garden path into penalty and penury. ;)

  77. Ned S says:

    “aggravates” THEN you picky ole Biker! :)

    Ah, but yes, all the talk of opiated hash ‘n suchlike could get a bloke reminiscing about the more carefree days of his long gone youth …

    Hmmm … DD probably should add laudanum and morphine ampoules to his list? Strictly for medicinal use of course! It simply never pays to be underprepared … D)

  78. Biker says:

    I found The List(s) a little amusing, Ned. We have a dozen or so, for rides up to four months. When you have to carry it all on a bike, you quickly learn what you _really_ need.

    In the ‘grey section’ contributed by readers, some dip lists ‘can opener’ immediately following someone else’s inclusion of a SAK.
    (They call it ‘Survivor’. We call it camping… . ;) )

  79. Ned S says:

    Not sure I’ll ever get the hang of that ‘big grin’ thing – Wonder if it’s because I’m not a Yank and haven’t had to actively practise contorting my mouth muscles that much all my life to be successful in anything – Yes, comparing “Shady Bird’s” and “Bushie Bob’s” pics up above could seem to support that suspicion? ;)

  80. Ned S says:

    A fun day out in the bush is when a bloke drops off the back of a mountain with his knapsack for a bit of a goosey gander. Survival is what you do when you get to the bottom and notice that there are a lot of ‘interesting’ looking plants around and that the birds have stopped tweeting! :)

  81. bearamundi says:

    ‘hirsute’, that is the first time I have ever seen the word.

    Well at least I amused myself with the ganga scheme. It is probably hard to convey humour in a forum.

    Last week my 3.5 yr old son said at the dinner table:”Papa, you are a funny clown” and my 5 yr old daughter followed with:”Are you going to join the circus?” I think it is so important to laugh about things. That 70′s vinyl again Biker. Rod Stewart before he became a drop-kick:
    “Make the best out of the bad
    Just laugh it off
    You didn’t have to come here anyway”

    (every picture tells a story)

  82. Biker says:

    “‘hirsute’, that is the first time I have ever seen the word.”

    Well then, my day wasn’t entirely wasted… . :D

    And your humour wasn’t wasted on me, either.
    I had a lot of fun with it, in fact… . ;)

  83. Ned S says:

    Is your paid off European property in Finland Bear? Can’t hurt to have a nice overseas holiday home option available amongst friends I reckon. And I can see merit in their approach to having a ‘quiet’ drink with a old mate of many years that you described. BUT I’m not going in any of their sauna comps! :)

  84. Biker says:

    Missus once taught on an island where the Finns had set up a sauna with a plunge pool which consisted of a naked run along a jetty into the sea. When she arrived, she was expected to continue the tradition of her predecessor, an easygoing New York lassie happy to share the sauna, then make the thirty metre dash to cool off.

    The crew were a little disappointed that their new Canadian chalkie never continued the tradition… . :D

  85. Lachlan says:

    Bear, like no offense man but ya gotta cool it or you’ll blow the lid off our WA distribution arm ;)

    Now getting away from business talk and back over to survivalism…I’m proud to anounce BP that I’m cooking my first bunny ever tonight. It seems these little mongrels are suddenly plaguing the place. On the brighter side I never realised how meaty they were. As good as a chook. And maybe you’ll laugh but I’m making a Thai curry thing out of him. Apart from meat and six veg its about the only thing this bachelor/scrooge is inspired towards nowdays :)

  86. Lachlan says:

    I really should buy that bottle of shiraz.

    Ned you oughta pack a rifle..semi auto preferable next time you bush walk :(

  87. Biker says:

    Crockpot is the only way to cook a bunny, Lachlan. Don’t forget rosemary!
    (How could I ever forget Rose Marie??!!~) Cooked for 5 – 6 hours, I reckon they’re better than chicken… . (Rabbits, not Rose Marie… .)
    Unwooded chardonnay explains the stream-of-(un)consciousness here… .

    Bunnies have gone quiet lately. I took a l-o-n-g shot at one a week ago… and pinged him at around sixty metres (paced it out). Long shot for an air rifle, anyway. He was mixied (gourmet!) so I guess he never saw it coming.

    I’ve got snares all over the valley, mainly to stop the little Bs digging up my retic drippers. Lately all I’ve caught is a possum!~
    No, I _passed_ on that… .

  88. Ned S says:

    “Ned you oughta pack a rifle” – If I haven’t carefully planned the terms of the encounter to favour me massively, I’m more your run away quickly type of survivalist foot soldier mate? :)

    Thai bunny – Yep, I can’t see any reason it wouldn’t catch on!

  89. Lachlan says:

    My mate pinged this one with 22 and not sure but sounded like long z ammo Anyhow this is the first I have seen of them around here. Theyre all around his house and digging holes.
    So I’ll have to get a crock pot because my ex wife took ours with her and I have not replaced it. I have half of him left. So what goes in besides rabbit and rosemary (got that in garden)…was it veges and wine? or something else maybe?

    Possum……they stink.

  90. Biker says:

    Start with a bed of rosemary… I _coil_ it in the base of the crockpot.
    The rabbit is placed on that. Normally I only use the back legs or hindquarters. A little port splashed on it, then place onions around the outside. Chopped garlic scattered on top. I also toss a handful of garlic chives all over. Then a crown of rosemary on top.

    When it’s perfect, the meat falls away from the bones with the prod of a fork. Serve with a really good red*. :D

    * A really good redhead is also a great match… .

  91. Ned S says:

    I can only hope your friend tamarra never meets that spikey little bit of spice you talk about called rosemary or you could be the bunny in the crockpot me ole mate? :)

    Possum……they stink – Wouldn’t be so dismissive Lachlan. Oysters smell funny too but don’t lack for culinary devotees. ;)

  92. Lachlan says:

    Well im into my Thai bunny now Ned and its fine but the bunny flavour is lost in the dish. I like the sound of the crock pot recipe. Thanks a lot Biker Ive written that down. One thing I have deduced from the experience is that bunny is a great resource. Lots of meat on the small frame and texture is great. Doesn’t seem gamey..at least not to me. Venison as good as it sounds Ned is game meat and it can either be lovely if cooked right or like eating a football if not. We have crocked it or minced it(tasty bolognese) or cut super thin and done a minute each side max can be OK.
    Good red wine ..yes.
    Company…hmmm it’ll have to be a gorgeous blonde but BP…at this fantasy dinner for two :)….:(

  93. Ned S says:

    “a gorgeous blonde … at this fantasy dinner for two” – Ah to be young and able to choose to be fussy – Even in one’s fantasies! Enjoy mate … :)

  94. Biker says:

    Just wolfed down five* slabs of bronzie baked in the woodstove, fellas. Four baked veges, plus salad; and washed down with that nice white.

    At times, I’ve potted a dozen back legs, Lachlan. Unfortunately even bunnies are a finite resource, so it may be a while before I can _feast_ again… .

    * Three for me and two for Goldilocks… .
    (Let’s leave the ranga out-of-this, OK?!~)

  95. Lachlan says:

    Its too complicated for now Ned but fantasies are a must at times.
    Night mate…may your dreams be mellow :)

  96. Ned S says:

    “Night mate … may your dreams be mellow” – Ta ‘n Ditto mate! – And also to those who’ve never eaten bunny … :)

  97. Lachlan says:

    Sounds fantastic BP…goodnight to ya…and Im sure you’ll sleep well on all that food :)

  98. Ned S says:

    Seriously Chris, if you really feel to stash some stuff in your sheds then go for some cheap and tradeable crap like scrap copper maybe? If you are right, you might win a little bit. If you are wrong you mightn’t lose too much. But hey, fellahs, even the Russkies weren’t generally reduced to swapping handfuls of bullets for handfuls of morphine ampoules for handfuls of bullion in the streets when their economy collapsed. There’s a lot of very fundamental differences between even vaguely civilized societies and those championed by the likes of Mr Mugabe.

  99. Ned S says:

    … “for handfuls of bullion” for bags of rice (even large ones!) …

  100. Ned S says:

    I’m always interested in interesting graphs even if they mightn’t mean much to a mug like me ? :

    http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/sep102010.html

  101. chris says:

    Hello my fathered friends, check this out. One day before the great depression started in 1929, some professional economic hot shot dude said in the newspapers that everything was great in the economy, and that there was no need to worry. Just letting y’all know NOT to trust the mainstream media and only to trust honest people like daily reckoning or Robert Kiyosaki. Anyhoo, here is a link to an article that tells you what crap the so called experts came out with during the depression of 1929.

    http://kanan48.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/great-depression-quotes-1929-vs-2008-have-we-learned-anything/

  102. chris says:

    Hello to y’all, thank you for your comments and yes I am still stocking up on rice :-) Let me tell y’all a true story about my relativeS in Europe during the great depression and world war 2. They used to get starving people from the cities knocking on their doors (they lived on farms) begging for a loaf of bread. People offered their house titles for a loaf of bread, or even a few slices of bread. They said “What use is a house title if we are about to die of starvation?” So rice it is!!

  103. John says:

    How about the Daily Reckoning give us some comments on that circus of an economy – Japan ….where they have been trying to prevent the bubble of their Current Account surplus bursting by for 20 years keeping their currency low and continuing an unsustainable trade surplus. I think Japan will have to introduce a tax on savings and/or confiscate money from its people to save its economy…. And yet they continue to try and prevent the yen from rising….which is the markets way of telling them somethings wrong. If they dont tax savings – then the yen will rise , manufacturing will disappear from Japan and …heh presto the market WILL achieve what the Japanese are so scared of! Oh …and under that scenario – the Japanese govt will still be broke!
    Given all other Asian nations are trying to follow Japan – (export your way to prosperity) whats gonna prevent the whole ship of world trade rolling over !

  104. Stillgotshoeson says:

    Comment by chris on 11 September 2010:

    Hello to y’all, thank you for your comments and yes I am still stocking up on rice :-) Let me tell y’all a true story about my relativeS in Europe during the great depression and world war 2. They used to get starving people from the cities knocking on their doors (they lived on farms) begging for a loaf of bread. People offered their house titles for a loaf of bread, or even a few slices of bread. They said “What use is a house title if we are about to die of starvation?” So rice it is!!

    I have a friend from Malta and he tells me similiar tales of his Grandfather giving land in exchange for food for his family..

  105. Ross says:

    John, Japanese housewives taught the US banksters a thing or two about the carry trade and sewing carry money based inflation bubbles elsewhere. Just like they taught the US banksters about building the real estate bubble of all time (the one where greater Tokyo was at one time worth a third of the land value of the whole USA).

    Start from the basis that banksters are penny lane tune artists and followers.

    So why put your money into a dud economy when you can gear off zero or negative interest rates and send it out with the thundering herd. If you just know to write a report like Goldman right at the top of the market to buy while at your own desk you sell and short as the bubble pops you are a very happy US crony. It won’t stop til the USD explodes and the cronies meet their ends at the hands of the revolutionary mob over there.

  106. Biker says:

    “People offered their house titles for a loaf of bread, or even a few slices of bread.”

    There ya go! Simple… but why stop at a couple of piddly little sheds?
    Buy a warehouse, _fill_ it with rice… and trade a few bags to Obama, in exchange for The White House.

    As we move gradually forward into Cloud Cuckoo Land, the trades are becoming more and more imaginative. Do you starving folk know nothing about bush tucker? I mean, I’m partial to rice, but it’s a little bland (once the vanload of beans is exhausted… and I use ‘exhausted’ in its widest context here!)

    If you see yourself among the starving hordes, ready to trade your home (your wife, your children, etc) for a handful of grain, do a little research on bush tucker. The original people here managed quite well on it for 40,000 years. :D

  107. Ned S says:

    “It won’t stop til the USD explodes and the cronies meet their ends at the hands of the revolutionary mob over there” – It could be a worry for the US if they suspect sizeable segments of their general population aren’t likely to behave in as civilized a fashion as the Soviets when their economy went leg up Ross. Because Yes, as we certainly have seen, the Yanks can get a bit toey regarding things like kicking in shop windows and pinching stuff like food and TVs when they are feeling a bit out of sorts. Maybe that’s why they’ve felt the need to send some troops for some OS training at the warm end over the last decade? To get them toughened up for dealing with the warm end at home should it come???

  108. Ned S says:

    “The original people here managed quite well on it for 40,000 years” – There were only about 2 or 3 hundred K of them though Biker? I truly do suspect Botany Bay’s oyster fields could start to get fished out pretty quickly if both Steve Keen and Chistopher Joye were filling up their dilly bags there every day? :)

  109. Steve says:

    Steve’s quote of the day:

    “lets see if Jenny Macklin can do a better job than that dill Tanya Plibersek did”

  110. Biker says:

    “…lets see if Jenny Macklin can do a better job than that doll Tanya Plibersek did”

    You mean _double_ the FHOGs, Steven? I doubt it.
    But if they did, you’d have a deposit, son!~ :D

  111. Ned S says:

    I doubt it should be too difficult to do a better job on more affordable housing than Plibersek did. Just depends if one puts the emphasis on ‘more’ or on ‘affordable’ perhaps? And with ‘better’ needing to equate to different these days. As lots ‘n lots ‘n lots of things have changed since the 1980s. Leastways, that’s my impression. Despite the fact that lots of my fellow Aussies still seem to be struggling to get their heads around such thoughts.

  112. Biker says:

    “There were only about 2 or 3 hundred K of them though Biker?”

    True, but they hardly had any impact at all on the food resources, Ned.
    I doubt there’d be 20,000 Aussies who could identify even a dozen native foods on our ten acres, Ned. Twice in the last twenty years we’ve had local Aboriginal people show us the diversity of native food plants here.
    And we turned up a beautiful quartz spearhead down by the creek… .

    Add to that the dietary complement of introduced species, our orchards, chickens, olives, bunnies, etc.

    I figure that rice is a poor substitute for a wilderness block with a creek, but each to his own. Wouldn’t bother trying a trade on, Chris.
    Boiled rice for two years? Nope. :D

  113. Steve says:

    I mean get rid of it Biker
    F*@# it off
    Send it to the S*%$House!!!

    The same with the Negative gearing

    F*@# it off
    Send it to the S*%$House!!!

    My tax dollars should be spent on other more important things, not socialist reforms (wealth redistribution, whatever you want to call it) that makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

    To think my tax dollars are being spent to price me out of the property market makes me sick

  114. Biker says:

    “I doubt it should be too difficult to do a better job on more affordable housing than Plibersek did.”

    Not sure about that, Ned. Labor helped over 200,000 families into homes… and reduced the rental pool by close to the same number. That kept rents flat… and even reduced them in some regional areas.

    Labor also helped those struggling families who had a small deposit to get into ‘starter homes’ and rid themselves of evil grasping landlords, who were just about to raise their rents; tie them to the railway tracks, etc. (Twists his moustaches evilly, here…)

    Labor screwed up bigtime in some areas, but housing was one of their shining successes… even though their FHOGs cost our family lots of cash!~

    (I can _hear_ a chorus of agreement, as bears hit those Thumbs Up buttons and click those five-star-ratings. Go for it, bears!!~ :D )

  115. Biker says:

    HaHaHa… He bit!~ :D

  116. John says:

    Bit? I think he is CHOKING on it, BP. Anyone here know the Heimlich Manoeuvre?

  117. Ned S says:

    “Heimlich Manoeuvre” – Would it be OK if I settled for giving male asphixiation sufferers a few spirited taps on the back – And in the abscence of that working I opened their larynx up with me pocket knife and bunged a coupla fingers in the hole ’til the ambos turned up? Hey’ I know life’s important but a bloke shouldn’t be asked to sacrifice deeply held principles to save one maybe? :)

  118. chris says:

    Biker- Sure bush tucker might keep you alive if you live in the bush. But I live in the city and anyway who can be bothered drivin for 3 hours to the bush to pick up a nice handul of grubs. Which would I rather eat- a nice bowlful of steaming rice, or a plateful of witcherty grubs? I think I will go for the rice!! Ps- my feathered friend, do a google search on the words: 3 billion people live on rice.

    There are 6 billion people in the world, so that means that exactly
    half the worlds population live on rice, so I’m sure I can do it too if it comes to the crunch :-) Thank you for your concern though

  119. Biker says:

    Chris, buy a cow.. and moooooove.

    Think I prefer our yabbies to your rice, mate. But you city fellas know better than us country boys. P.S., my scaly friend, do a google search on bush tucker. It’s more than witchetty grubs, son. :D

  120. Biker says:

    “…I opened their larynx up with me pocket knife…”

    Hey, be careful with his larynx, Ned. We’d be financially lost without our fortnightly serve of Steven’s ‘Quote of the Weak’…!~ ;)

  121. Ned S says:

    Witchetty grubs? My Dad has fond recollections of them as a kid. ‘Course he had fond recollections of bread and milk with sugar sprinkled on top until maybe 37 years ago when he fed it to us and himself as a special treat from the good ole days … And rather quickly decided that his recollection of the joys of that particular feast from the good ole days may have been overrated!

    I personally think you are being quite extreme Chris. But also know that it is important for a bloke to feel secure. So get the sheds stocked up and then think about what you do from there maybe hey?

  122. bearamundi says:

    Biker, you are not missing a house are you?

  123. Biker says:

    No, Bear, but you should maybe check your BMX bike chain, son.
    It sounds like you’re missing a link.. . :D

  124. Don says:

    I can’t imagine what my blood pressure would be like if this happened to me. About the only things going through my head would be “kill!Blood!Tear!Smash!”. Kind of like the hulk, just not green or anywhere near the strength.

    It amuses me the way people worry about their privacy and scamsters like this and then happily post all their most personal details on Facebook and the like. Just think, when you ring the bank/phone company or whoever, what are the main things that they ask for with regards to ID? Don’t put those details on a website that has no real obligations to keep them secret.

  125. Biker says:

    There’s probably an ‘African’ connection here, Don. The owner was in South Africa… and was hit by the Nigerians. It would be interesting to know if he had disclosed his financial situation to a South African bank… .

    The closest I’ve come to being scammed was in a Chinese/Indonesian Restaurant in northern Holland, where my Visa was hit for $2750.00.
    We were onto it quickly (checking our account daily) and ANZ covered the loss, but it makes one wonder about daily losses worldwide… .

  126. Don says:

    You are correct in that the money was sent to Nigeria from what I have read. That said, there is nothing to stop anyone from doing this in Oz, I have heard of mortgages being taken out on properties without people’s permission as well. It is just vitally important to protect your personal information as much as possible to circumvent this sort of disaster.

    I am not sure what that guy who lost his unit can do, I take it he will have to sue the real estate agent or conveyancer? That doesnt happen overnight or cost zero from what I can gather and what if they cannot or will not pay? All in all really unpleasant :(

  127. Ned S says:

    The scammers were in the process of effecting a sale on a second of the same bloke’s properties. Not sure I feel to speculate on what that might mean though?

    But irrespective, logically one would think that if he didn’t authorize the sales, that what we are talking about is the equivalent of stolen property that when it’s recovered would be returned to the owner. With the buyer having a problem rather than the original owner. But by the sounds of it, it could be another one of those cases of the law not always being very logical.

    Hey Biker, I’m having trouble with a crossword clue: “The bird referenced in the title of the 1975 Milos Forman movie where Will Sampson played the part of ‘Chief’” – Any thoughts?

  128. Biker says:

    Gotta be a cuckoo, mate!

    Still think there’s more ‘inside’ on that Nigerian scam. Ghana is almost as bad these days.

  129. Ned S says:

    Cuckoo – Yep, that worked – Ta! ;)

    I’m working on a cryptic one now: “The Wolf + This little fellow was surnamed after a digit + A letter that is commonly used to measure shoe widths” ???

  130. Biker says:

    Jeez… Tough One!~ If it was Hamlet, I’d say 2B.
    The Wolf & The Seven Little Kids doesn’t work. Beowulf, maybe… ?!~

  131. Ned S says:

    Hamlet’s 2B – We must be playing match the Nursery Rhyme again? Hmmm … Doesn’t quite seem to fit Biker, but the temptation is to think if one did some surgery on it with a blunt pocket knife they might improve the fit? ‘Though it just doesn’t seem worth the effort to me at all …

  132. Biker says:

    Just a little worried about the Realists’ offspring, mate. Fancy getting your 4 yo to sell his toys on eBay, to buy gold… . Maybe the concept of a Parent Licence isn’t as far-fetched as I thought… .

  133. Ned S says:

    Life certainly seemed less complicated back in the ‘good ole days’ when choices of parenting styles didn’t especially present themselves to Aussies maybe mate? Although, Yes, I do suspect that lots of those with an IQ above 90 (or 95 ?) might be waking up to that fact.

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